It’s more refined musings about stuff I’ve considered earlier. And I’m not kidding about the feedback: I’ve already been told a) that it’s an honor to be thought younger than I am and b) that it’s rude to critique anything anyone says when the speaker thinks he’s complimenting me.
(FTR, I thanked the writers for reading and then being moved enough to write. That’s quite an honor!)
But I stand by what I said: that I reject the concept that everyone wants to be considered to be younger than they are. And that just because it’s a compliment to you, it doesn’t mean that it will be a compliment to the listener. And I’ll add this: even in this day and age, if you call an African-American man a ‘boy’ you’re very likely to get your hat handed to you.
And, because they move the links around…
A close friend and I were ensconced in the armchairs next to the pick-up counter at the local coffee boutique, as is our wont on a weekend morning (at best, we view this once-weekly chat as cheap therapy; at worst, we’re just hiding from our kids).
We were deep in conversation as the patrons milled about, and so were a little startled when a middle-aged man brightly said, “Good morning, girls!” as he reached for his java.
Now, I was a card-carrying member of N.O.W. (Ooh look! A pun!) in my youth, so I couldn’t resist. I looked over my shoulder at the wall, confused, and then turned back to our new friend and smiled. “Are you talking to us? Because we’re grown women.”
He winced, and it was his turn to be genuinely, and understandably, confused. After all, can’t we take a compliment? He told us how he always called young women under the age of 18 “ladies” because they like to feel older and he was equally certain that women of a certain age liked to be called “girls.” So he was just trying to be nice to us women “of a certain age.”
It left me wondering: What’s my deal with that? Why have I always bristled when I hear a woman called a girl?
The Associated Press stylebook is clear: The word “girl” is applicable only until the 18th birthday. But that’s not it.
The common, women’s-libber reason for The Bristle is the whole drill about how calling a 50-year old woman a “girl” is a way of minimizing her, of making her less threatening (the way my husband keeps tossing me herbal mood lifters while my perimenopause rages does give some credence to this; maybe I could use a little de-threatening some days).
But even that’s not what bugs me about this so-called courtesy. I’ve been thinking about it ever since our encounter with Java Man and can only conclude: I bristle when people assume that I need to be flattered like that. That my psyche is so fragile that, not only can I not be reminded that I’m 50 years old, I’m so brittle I must be actively lied to about it. And that I’m so dumb that I can be deluded into thinking that someone actually thinks I’m some ingénue. And that I’m so starved for positive attention that the thought someone wanted to lie to me to try to make me feel better should make me feel better. And that the lie that I look like I’m 17, should I be insane enough to entertain it, is something that would make me feel better.
When in all truth? The lie “Have you lost weight?” would do all the above and then some.
Here are the facts: I will never pass for 17 again, thank goodness, as I hated the way I looked then. I’m liking the looks of the woman I’ve aged into, and hope that I continue to like her looks as I get older. My age is an achievement, and not a cringe-worthy one.
Oh, and for the record: “N.O.W” stands for “National Organization for Women.” Just in case you’re too young to know that.
You know: Like, if you’re a girl.
Mom, Interrupted 
I don’t care if no one really thinks I’m under 21… I still like being carded. 😉
If it’s a real “I don’t know how old you are” I find it very interesting. I just hate the “I’m gonna make the old lady feel better by flattering her insanely.” I run into that a lot now that I’m over fifty.
A woman I knew died when she was almost ninety. I was assured that, if she hadn’t died already, the knowledge that her true age was published in her obituary would have certainly killed her.
I can’t relate.
I don’t have a problem with it, personally. I mean, I refer to my husband and his friends as “the boys”, so why not let myself and my friends be called “the girls”?
And I SO wish bars and cashiers would still ask to card me… 🙂
But not every man would want to be called a ‘boy,’ as was pointed out above. It wouldn’t matter if you meant it in a friendly manner or not; you’d have your head handed to you if you called a black man ‘boy.’ Everyone would understand and respect that reaction, too.
I agree with Kathy. Calling a grown woman isn’t a compliment or an insult. It’s just casual. A fellow human being is being kind and friendly, why make him feel crummy for doing so?
I don’t think the purpose was to make him feel crummy….the purpose was to set him straight. In the same way that I set people straight if they call me by a nickname that I hate, or say something that pushes one of my buttons. I don’t jump all over them. I just point it out in a kind way. Or a funny way, as Mom, Interrupted did. And as a fellow human being, I appreciate when people are honest with me so that I can look at my own behavior and make adjustments if I deem them appropriate.
To be honest, if I were “That Guy” I don’t think I would have seen Mom, Interrupted’s reply as a funny, worthwhile teaching moment or being set straight. I would have just thought she was simply cranky and mean. A little sad, because we all know she isn’t.
Well, Angela, if you were “That Guy” you’d be self-absorbed and uncaring about the feelings of others and disrespectful of their right to state their opinions.
It’s more self absorbed to correct someone else’s vocabulary when they were simply trying to be kind. THAT’S uncaring and disrespectful.
Warning: this message uses adult language and subject matter that may be offensive to some readers. Read further at your own risk.
Ya know context is everything. When last the Dallas Cowboys won the Superbowl, we all had to put up with their every fan prattling on about ‘The Boyz’. By the same token, every female (and I don’t care how old you are) loves being encouraged with the popular cheer ‘you go girl!’ This thread illustrates how easy it is to get caught in the cross-fire.
Negotiating the ever changing currents of social context can be tricky and we should be willing to overlook minor infractions as the unwitting gaffs they likely are and not condemn the poor sap as a bigot simply because he may have used a word like ‘niggardly’ in grownup talk apparently over the head of those who would make victims where none exist. Who ever said ‘sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me,’ clearly didn’t understand the damage the policy did to their esteem.
To those offended I apologize for having used the words ‘niggardly’, ‘Cowboys’, ‘boyz’ and ‘girl’ in the body of this text. This kind of charged language is easily misunderstood and it’s not okay to give blatant offense. I’m a football-bigoted sexist. I generally try to keep this unsavory side to myself but I saw no other way to make my point. I sincerely hope we can still live in the same world together because the alternative isn’t tolerance.
There are days my dog is the only person it’s safe to talk to.
Ya. What Hunter Thorpe said!
I don’t know about that last, Craig. You may be overestimating your relationship with Elmer.
Correcting someone’s vocabulary means, for example, telling him that he meant to say infer instead of imply. This is a case where the person’s intentions were one thing, but the word used was incorrect.
In this case, she was aimed at the intention, not the vocabulary. I’m not sure why you don’t recognize that. And it’s not uncaring to point out to someone that what he’s doing might not be taken the way he intended it. If I was using potentially offensive language (and Mom, Interrupted is far from the only person who does not care for that usage), I would want to know so that I could make my own decisions.
She didn’t do anything uncaring or disrespectful. She did not use foul language or insult him. She didn’t belittle him or make fun of him. She made a small joke to point out to him that she wasn’t complimented by his comment.
Based on your responses here it seems to me that you wouldn’t hesitate to let your opinion known if someone said something you disagreed with. Does that make you uncaring and disrespectful?
Ya know: it’s a BLOG, not a scab. You really should quit picking at it.
Unless you’re one of those people who always has to have the last word. Which is pathetic, so in that case, have at it.